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happypandaSadhguru Exclusive
Disembodied Beings: Downloading Exalted Beings - Ep. 6 (of 6)
15 minutes - 2006
Transcript
(Female voice) Q from audience:
In the last Sanyama, I heard you speak about downloading some exalted beings into people's bodies who are here. Can you explain what you meant?
Sadhguru's A:
[Sadhguru looks at the questioner]
You...Are you the body? [Audience bursts out laughing and Sadhguru grins]
Did you understand the question? That's good. [Audience laughs even louder]
So....(Sadhguru sighs then smiles)...there are other things we can do which is not about teaching yoga or conducting programs. When I...Sometimes when I look at myself I can't believe that I have settled to teaching programs in organized, structured way because I am not that. (shakes hand no)
So there are other things we can do which are of a completely different nature but because we took up certain social responsibilities we have postponed them for a while but I am thinking of considerably cutting down my around...(pauses)...traveling around activity and start doing something else altogether. Maybe a part of the time in here (Isha Yoga Center in India); and a part of the time in the US ashram (in Tennesee), but mostly sitting in one place rather than moving about too much. So, (Sadguru laughs softly) about bodies....
You know, one group of people who made a serious efforts towards bringing down exalted beings into the existing bodies now was the Theosophical Society group. [video cuts to black & white photo of Madame Blavatsky and Col. Olcott. It then cuts to the International HQ of the Theosophical Society in Adyar, Chennai, India]
They made a huge effort and they did certain occult possibilities but what they wanted to do, they could never do.*(see notes at end of transcript)
Sadhguru continues:
Too grand a plan. In theory it is possible but in practice it became very difficult; because they were trying to bring down a very complex being which...(pauses for a moment)...who is being referred to as Maitreya through the ages, which never happened. **(see notes at end of transcript)
"We are not thinking of anything like that. In the last quite some time, there are many exalted beings who have, you know? Constantly in many ways behind me (my note: ie helping Sadhguru's work). To find them a way...(sighs)...to find them a body because they've lost their karmic structures to a large extent except for something very rudimentary with that they can't gain a body. To earn a body you must have sufficient karma (karma is Sanskrit for 'action'). Otherwise you're just there (Sadhguru throws out hands indicating space).
So I'm thinking, not thinking...I'm considering and I'm...(closes eyes like he's pondering and nods head yes...) "We will do this". Over a period of time, I want to find appropriate bodies for these beings. These are very exalted beings, but still with small bondages. ***(see notes (a) & (b) at end of transcript)
I could release them as they are, but I'm thinking of finding bodies, appropriate bodies for these beings so that we will live in the company of those people for a while; fantastic people. It will be a great boon for the world to have such people.
For a time I accommodated them in my own body, a few of them. That there were times when it was absolutely confusing for people who lived around me. There were many times where....(Sadhguru pauses)...when...(pauses again)...[Video cuts to photo of Sadhguru's wife Vijji smiling at the camera]...when Vijji was there, I would just drive her to insanity because I am just sitting there, because I'm just sitting there...she turns around and looks and it's somebody else, and she would be terrified, so terrified, petrified. She wouldn't know what to do. And another time she looks at me, it's somebody else sitting there.****
Those things we did for a certain time because Dhyanalinga was coming up and that. So sometime in future, we will download a few of these beings to maybe some of your bodies, I don't know; [Audience bursts out laughing and Sadhguru grins] but you have to go.
So it will need lots of preparation and sadhana to make people receptive enough for something like that. They must be strong enough but not too strong. They must be weak enough but not too weak. We have to find that balance...and it's a different level of sadhana altogether.
(Male voice) Q from audience:
So what happens to the person already in the body? Will they float around like bodiless beings?
Sadhguru A:
No, not that...that is not the way. If we have to do that, first of all, we have to make this being into a very... (pauses, then points to audience member)...let's say we take Richard. [Audience starts laughing and Sadhguru grins down at Richard who clearly is on the front row]
[Sadhguru grins and looks up at the entire room]
No, I'm not choosing him because he's special, (it's) because he's sitting right here. [Sadhguru laughs again] Let's say we take Richard now. Now we want to bring some other exalted being into this body. So now what we have to do with Richard is you can't pull him out and leave him somewhere. No, now we have to enlighten him, we must dissolve him. But if he dissolves, this body will collapse. But just using that transitory state of this one leaving, this one dissolving and that one getting into this body needs to happen. [My note: If one is enlightened it means at that moment Richard attains to Sat-Cit-Ananda - supreme infinite existence, supreme infinite super-consciousness, supreme infinite bliss].
It's like you know? They go and dock into the satellite something? It's an intricate process. It needs an atmosphere of enormous energy and discipline. So this one will cease to exist but we will raise the body to such a situation of sadhana that the body will be in such a state that it'll still be receptive. You have heard, ok we've been talking about there have been many like this but we've been talking about Paramahansa Yogananda. [video cuts to the photo of the author of Autobiography of a Yogi fame]. His body was kept without preservatives. That is just one aspect of it. I'm just using that as an example, that's not for this purpose.
So somebody is able to leave their body that is an example and a proof for you that somebody is able to leave the body in some other way than the normal way, isn't it? Because the body remains intact without deteriorating. So similarly body can be left in other ways. Leaving the body as still suitable for life. So this one is completely dissolved. So, sometime...I don't know how long but...sometime the roadshow has to stop and I need to sit somewhere to do things that cannot be done just coming and going and seeing the building and saying, 'ok, everything is nice' and move on to the next town. It doesn't happen like that. Then I have to get rooted.
So...somewhere all of you need to make up your mind, what we want? But if you're looking about truly exploring the esoteric, if we're really looking at setting up a enlightenment factory...
[audience bursts out laughing and someone in the audience shouts out, YES! audience begins hooping and clapping - Sadhguru grins and laughs]
[Sadhguru laughs and looks around the room again with a grin...]
...then we need to have lots of loonies! [Audience bursts out laughing even more] Who...who are just not concerned about their well-being anymore. There must be lots of people who are willing to be stripped down to their bones. If you cut and eat their soul it should be ok with them. That takes a different kind of involvement, absolutely different kind of involvement. I don't want anybody to fancifully say, "No, we'll do the spiritual thing..."
Because once I step into it (ie...this DL process) there's no way out for me. Generally everybody keeps their options open. If it's convenient they'll be there, not convenient tomorrow morning they'll disappear without even telling us. But I have no options. Once I put my foot there, I'm done. No matter what. So at least there needs to be a core group of people who will not keep any options open otherwise it'll just be me. Because I don't know any other way and there's no other way to make it happen. Once I step into something that's it. [Video has been playing photo after photo after photo of Sadhguru surrounded by truly enormous crowds. Like football stadium-sized packed gatherings across several continents of his followers and fans.]
You want to keep the options open we'll just do the road show as we're doing right now. Town to town, town to town and no water, just getting them little thirstier and little thirstier hoping someday they will.
But now we want to create a water source then it takes something else.
On those spheres of life I have...(pauses)....
At one time I had very big plans. Now I scaled them down a little bit because of various situations in our lives.
Let's see. If you create, if everybody together creates a conducive atmosphere, lot will happen, otherwise less will happen but something definitely will happen. "How much" depends on, (indicates the ashram) how well-oiled the whole machine is, but something will definitely happen, because some of it is very essential. The essential part I will anyway do it. The more fancy part, whether to do it or not depends on various situations.
[Sadhguru looks around the room]
So you want imported beings? We are looking at certain people who could be a good influence on the atmosphere around here, and certain people who could be of certain capabilities that it will be easy to impart certain things to them, but it's a shame that we have to import beings from elsewhere when so many (beings) are here? Hmm? (indicates his audience)
You are only willing to offer your body, not willing to evolve your being. That is a possibility that we may do for certain purposes. For certain purposes which is off the...what to say...off the normal spiritual process. Certain purposes, if we have to prepare people, would take a very long time. For such purposes we may do it. I am saying 'may' but the most important thing is to raise this crop of people to a higher possibility. That's most important for me.
*****side notes for some context*****
*[On avatars (divine-to-human descent), avadhoots (human-to-divine-ascent) and maha-avatars (grand divine-to-divine descent - or rarely - to human descent).
From what I gather Madame Blavatsky and Co. were trying to bring down a Maha-Avatar (Grand Avatar) - an extremely exalted avatar such that even actual deities would be able to become disciples of this exalted being. According to Buddhist Sutras the future Buddha Maitreya will be one of these exalted avatars (though he's not the only one in the universe) such that it's prophesied 30,000 god-deities and 20,000 goddess-deities will also take Maha-Avatar Maitreya as their guru. A Maha Avatar is an Avatar's Avatar if you get my meaning. FYI...the future Buddha Maitreya is not scheduled to appear for another 5.6 billion years and all of the current Buddha's teachings - ie Shakyamuni Buddha - will have long,long,long been forgotten by humanity.]
**[Maitreya is from the Sanskrit root 'maitr which means 'friend'. So Maitreya is so called because he will be the 'friend of humanity' and give a big push to help humanity evolve up the Planes. Maitreya is really more of a title - like Doctor so-and-so or Justice so-and-so or Lord or Lady so-and-so than an actual given name.]
***(a)[In Buddhist lore they would be known as Bodhisattvas of the 10th bhumi (stage) as opposed to a Buddha who has zero bondages left ("karmic appendages" is how I once heard Sadhguru call it). The step beyond 10th bhumi is full-on Buddha. Even Shakyamuni was born as a Bodhisattva, and only became a Buddha later under the Bodhi tree. In Hindu lore Buddha is accounted a full avatar of Lord Vishnu (Lord of Supreme - but still capable of perfected action - Divine Super-Consciousness). Shiva does not ever act, not ever - Buddha was still capable of acting when action was needed - hence his accounting as a divine avatar of Lord Vishnu in popular lore. Well that and Vaishnavism has long been far more popular throughout India than Shaivism. So there might be a wee bit of wanting to ascribe the Buddha to their preferred association of the Ultimate Divinity. :)
***(b)It also contextualizes the importance of Nirmanakaya - keeping a physical plane body "frame" so a higher Plane blessed being still has a way of reaching and guiding beings on the denser planes. As Sadhguru has said...unless you practice for having and keeping such a body you don't just automatically get one. Mother Nature's maxim: Use it or lose it seems to be a thing even for exalted beings. The beings who do this are known as Nirmanakayas in the Dharma traditions. A Nirmanakaya (like Gautama) keeps a subtle body copy of their physical body around from which they can build future physical bodies if needed.
Sadhguru has a separate topic on Youtube about spacetime and Nirmanakayas where he mentions Shakyamuni specifically as an example. But he says there are many other such beings throughout the universe whom are also Nirmanakayas. From his other talk I got the impression doing practices to gain a Nirmanakaya body may involve Kalaswara - a (probably very elevated and likely very secret) branch of yogic practices that involve control of spacetime itself. One likely has to be proven over many multiple lifetimes of having upmost integrity and ethics even in the face of grave danger (or its opposite - extreme self-advantage - like Jesus was tempted with) to get such teachings.
****For what it's worth. I've heard stories that some of Bardon's disciples, including his own family say this happened. The father in particular IRC says one day he knew it was someone else in his son's body. One day his son was there. The next day - his own son was gone and somebody else was looking and talking at him from his son's body from that day forward. I'm guessing an advanced being released the original "Franz" to maha-samadhi/maha-parinirvana and took on that body (and it's karma) so as to give the teachings now bearing the Bardon name to the world.
Disembodied Beings: Downloading Exalted Beings - Ep. 6 (of 6)
15 minutes - 2006
Transcript
(Female voice) Q from audience:
In the last Sanyama, I heard you speak about downloading some exalted beings into people's bodies who are here. Can you explain what you meant?
Sadhguru's A:
[Sadhguru looks at the questioner]
You...Are you the body? [Audience bursts out laughing and Sadhguru grins]
Did you understand the question? That's good. [Audience laughs even louder]
So....(Sadhguru sighs then smiles)...there are other things we can do which is not about teaching yoga or conducting programs. When I...Sometimes when I look at myself I can't believe that I have settled to teaching programs in organized, structured way because I am not that. (shakes hand no)
So there are other things we can do which are of a completely different nature but because we took up certain social responsibilities we have postponed them for a while but I am thinking of considerably cutting down my around...(pauses)...traveling around activity and start doing something else altogether. Maybe a part of the time in here (Isha Yoga Center in India); and a part of the time in the US ashram (in Tennesee), but mostly sitting in one place rather than moving about too much. So, (Sadguru laughs softly) about bodies....
You know, one group of people who made a serious efforts towards bringing down exalted beings into the existing bodies now was the Theosophical Society group. [video cuts to black & white photo of Madame Blavatsky and Col. Olcott. It then cuts to the International HQ of the Theosophical Society in Adyar, Chennai, India]
They made a huge effort and they did certain occult possibilities but what they wanted to do, they could never do.*(see notes at end of transcript)
Sadhguru continues:
Too grand a plan. In theory it is possible but in practice it became very difficult; because they were trying to bring down a very complex being which...(pauses for a moment)...who is being referred to as Maitreya through the ages, which never happened. **(see notes at end of transcript)
"We are not thinking of anything like that. In the last quite some time, there are many exalted beings who have, you know? Constantly in many ways behind me (my note: ie helping Sadhguru's work). To find them a way...(sighs)...to find them a body because they've lost their karmic structures to a large extent except for something very rudimentary with that they can't gain a body. To earn a body you must have sufficient karma (karma is Sanskrit for 'action'). Otherwise you're just there (Sadhguru throws out hands indicating space).
So I'm thinking, not thinking...I'm considering and I'm...(closes eyes like he's pondering and nods head yes...) "We will do this". Over a period of time, I want to find appropriate bodies for these beings. These are very exalted beings, but still with small bondages. ***(see notes (a) & (b) at end of transcript)
I could release them as they are, but I'm thinking of finding bodies, appropriate bodies for these beings so that we will live in the company of those people for a while; fantastic people. It will be a great boon for the world to have such people.
For a time I accommodated them in my own body, a few of them. That there were times when it was absolutely confusing for people who lived around me. There were many times where....(Sadhguru pauses)...when...(pauses again)...[Video cuts to photo of Sadhguru's wife Vijji smiling at the camera]...when Vijji was there, I would just drive her to insanity because I am just sitting there, because I'm just sitting there...she turns around and looks and it's somebody else, and she would be terrified, so terrified, petrified. She wouldn't know what to do. And another time she looks at me, it's somebody else sitting there.****
Those things we did for a certain time because Dhyanalinga was coming up and that. So sometime in future, we will download a few of these beings to maybe some of your bodies, I don't know; [Audience bursts out laughing and Sadhguru grins] but you have to go.
So it will need lots of preparation and sadhana to make people receptive enough for something like that. They must be strong enough but not too strong. They must be weak enough but not too weak. We have to find that balance...and it's a different level of sadhana altogether.
(Male voice) Q from audience:
So what happens to the person already in the body? Will they float around like bodiless beings?
Sadhguru A:
No, not that...that is not the way. If we have to do that, first of all, we have to make this being into a very... (pauses, then points to audience member)...let's say we take Richard. [Audience starts laughing and Sadhguru grins down at Richard who clearly is on the front row]
[Sadhguru grins and looks up at the entire room]
No, I'm not choosing him because he's special, (it's) because he's sitting right here. [Sadhguru laughs again] Let's say we take Richard now. Now we want to bring some other exalted being into this body. So now what we have to do with Richard is you can't pull him out and leave him somewhere. No, now we have to enlighten him, we must dissolve him. But if he dissolves, this body will collapse. But just using that transitory state of this one leaving, this one dissolving and that one getting into this body needs to happen. [My note: If one is enlightened it means at that moment Richard attains to Sat-Cit-Ananda - supreme infinite existence, supreme infinite super-consciousness, supreme infinite bliss].
It's like you know? They go and dock into the satellite something? It's an intricate process. It needs an atmosphere of enormous energy and discipline. So this one will cease to exist but we will raise the body to such a situation of sadhana that the body will be in such a state that it'll still be receptive. You have heard, ok we've been talking about there have been many like this but we've been talking about Paramahansa Yogananda. [video cuts to the photo of the author of Autobiography of a Yogi fame]. His body was kept without preservatives. That is just one aspect of it. I'm just using that as an example, that's not for this purpose.
So somebody is able to leave their body that is an example and a proof for you that somebody is able to leave the body in some other way than the normal way, isn't it? Because the body remains intact without deteriorating. So similarly body can be left in other ways. Leaving the body as still suitable for life. So this one is completely dissolved. So, sometime...I don't know how long but...sometime the roadshow has to stop and I need to sit somewhere to do things that cannot be done just coming and going and seeing the building and saying, 'ok, everything is nice' and move on to the next town. It doesn't happen like that. Then I have to get rooted.
So...somewhere all of you need to make up your mind, what we want? But if you're looking about truly exploring the esoteric, if we're really looking at setting up a enlightenment factory...
[audience bursts out laughing and someone in the audience shouts out, YES! audience begins hooping and clapping - Sadhguru grins and laughs]
[Sadhguru laughs and looks around the room again with a grin...]
...then we need to have lots of loonies! [Audience bursts out laughing even more] Who...who are just not concerned about their well-being anymore. There must be lots of people who are willing to be stripped down to their bones. If you cut and eat their soul it should be ok with them. That takes a different kind of involvement, absolutely different kind of involvement. I don't want anybody to fancifully say, "No, we'll do the spiritual thing..."
Because once I step into it (ie...this DL process) there's no way out for me. Generally everybody keeps their options open. If it's convenient they'll be there, not convenient tomorrow morning they'll disappear without even telling us. But I have no options. Once I put my foot there, I'm done. No matter what. So at least there needs to be a core group of people who will not keep any options open otherwise it'll just be me. Because I don't know any other way and there's no other way to make it happen. Once I step into something that's it. [Video has been playing photo after photo after photo of Sadhguru surrounded by truly enormous crowds. Like football stadium-sized packed gatherings across several continents of his followers and fans.]
You want to keep the options open we'll just do the road show as we're doing right now. Town to town, town to town and no water, just getting them little thirstier and little thirstier hoping someday they will.
But now we want to create a water source then it takes something else.
On those spheres of life I have...(pauses)....
At one time I had very big plans. Now I scaled them down a little bit because of various situations in our lives.
Let's see. If you create, if everybody together creates a conducive atmosphere, lot will happen, otherwise less will happen but something definitely will happen. "How much" depends on, (indicates the ashram) how well-oiled the whole machine is, but something will definitely happen, because some of it is very essential. The essential part I will anyway do it. The more fancy part, whether to do it or not depends on various situations.
[Sadhguru looks around the room]
So you want imported beings? We are looking at certain people who could be a good influence on the atmosphere around here, and certain people who could be of certain capabilities that it will be easy to impart certain things to them, but it's a shame that we have to import beings from elsewhere when so many (beings) are here? Hmm? (indicates his audience)
You are only willing to offer your body, not willing to evolve your being. That is a possibility that we may do for certain purposes. For certain purposes which is off the...what to say...off the normal spiritual process. Certain purposes, if we have to prepare people, would take a very long time. For such purposes we may do it. I am saying 'may' but the most important thing is to raise this crop of people to a higher possibility. That's most important for me.
*****side notes for some context*****
*[On avatars (divine-to-human descent), avadhoots (human-to-divine-ascent) and maha-avatars (grand divine-to-divine descent - or rarely - to human descent).
From what I gather Madame Blavatsky and Co. were trying to bring down a Maha-Avatar (Grand Avatar) - an extremely exalted avatar such that even actual deities would be able to become disciples of this exalted being. According to Buddhist Sutras the future Buddha Maitreya will be one of these exalted avatars (though he's not the only one in the universe) such that it's prophesied 30,000 god-deities and 20,000 goddess-deities will also take Maha-Avatar Maitreya as their guru. A Maha Avatar is an Avatar's Avatar if you get my meaning. FYI...the future Buddha Maitreya is not scheduled to appear for another 5.6 billion years and all of the current Buddha's teachings - ie Shakyamuni Buddha - will have long,long,long been forgotten by humanity.]
**[Maitreya is from the Sanskrit root 'maitr which means 'friend'. So Maitreya is so called because he will be the 'friend of humanity' and give a big push to help humanity evolve up the Planes. Maitreya is really more of a title - like Doctor so-and-so or Justice so-and-so or Lord or Lady so-and-so than an actual given name.]
***(a)[In Buddhist lore they would be known as Bodhisattvas of the 10th bhumi (stage) as opposed to a Buddha who has zero bondages left ("karmic appendages" is how I once heard Sadhguru call it). The step beyond 10th bhumi is full-on Buddha. Even Shakyamuni was born as a Bodhisattva, and only became a Buddha later under the Bodhi tree. In Hindu lore Buddha is accounted a full avatar of Lord Vishnu (Lord of Supreme - but still capable of perfected action - Divine Super-Consciousness). Shiva does not ever act, not ever - Buddha was still capable of acting when action was needed - hence his accounting as a divine avatar of Lord Vishnu in popular lore. Well that and Vaishnavism has long been far more popular throughout India than Shaivism. So there might be a wee bit of wanting to ascribe the Buddha to their preferred association of the Ultimate Divinity. :)
***(b)It also contextualizes the importance of Nirmanakaya - keeping a physical plane body "frame" so a higher Plane blessed being still has a way of reaching and guiding beings on the denser planes. As Sadhguru has said...unless you practice for having and keeping such a body you don't just automatically get one. Mother Nature's maxim: Use it or lose it seems to be a thing even for exalted beings. The beings who do this are known as Nirmanakayas in the Dharma traditions. A Nirmanakaya (like Gautama) keeps a subtle body copy of their physical body around from which they can build future physical bodies if needed.
Sadhguru has a separate topic on Youtube about spacetime and Nirmanakayas where he mentions Shakyamuni specifically as an example. But he says there are many other such beings throughout the universe whom are also Nirmanakayas. From his other talk I got the impression doing practices to gain a Nirmanakaya body may involve Kalaswara - a (probably very elevated and likely very secret) branch of yogic practices that involve control of spacetime itself. One likely has to be proven over many multiple lifetimes of having upmost integrity and ethics even in the face of grave danger (or its opposite - extreme self-advantage - like Jesus was tempted with) to get such teachings.
****For what it's worth. I've heard stories that some of Bardon's disciples, including his own family say this happened. The father in particular IRC says one day he knew it was someone else in his son's body. One day his son was there. The next day - his own son was gone and somebody else was looking and talking at him from his son's body from that day forward. I'm guessing an advanced being released the original "Franz" to maha-samadhi/maha-parinirvana and took on that body (and it's karma) so as to give the teachings now bearing the Bardon name to the world.
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